Fired OpenAI safety researchers Mikita Balesni and Tomek Korbak give us their first interview since their dramatic dismissal. They take us inside the company during METR’s investigation into the Hugging Face hack, explain why OpenAI’s rebuttal doesn’t add up, and describe how the fight over AI safety is still playing out inside the company.

Plus, we introduce our new segment, Pandora’s Box. Elon Musk wants to give every kid in America a SpaceX share, new filings in the OpenAI bugging case reveal the suspect’s chats with a Saudi royal, and more fresh horrors unleashed on us all by Silicon Valley. For a transcript of this episode, check out npr.org/machinegods.