Can Open Models Keep Up With OpenAI and Anthropic? | Nathan Lambert
About this episode
From the show’s notesa16z Partner Lisha Li sits down with AI researcher and Trillium founder Nathan Lambert to ask how durable the gap really is between frontier AI labs and open models.
Nathan argues that OpenAI and Anthropic have structural advantages in compute, capital, and the ability to pioneer new training paradigms, but open-model labs, particularly in China, have proven remarkably capable of following close behind. They unpack how much of that comes from distillation versus technical talent, why compute remains a major constraint, and how data, RL environments, and post-training are increasingly shaping model progress.
Read the show’s notes in full
They also discuss Nathan’s new nonprofit research lab, Trillium, and its plans to open up parts of AI research that are increasingly difficult to study from the outside. That includes releasing RL environments and documenting how AI is actually being used to automate AI research, with the goal of demystifying recursive self-improvement and giving researchers and policymakers a clearer picture of what frontier systems can and cannot do.
Timestamps:
Resources:
Learn more about Trillium: trilliumlabs.org
Follow Nathan Lambert on X:
x.com/natolambert
Nathan Lambert’s Newsletter:
interconnects.ai
Follow Lisha Li on X:
x.com/lishali88
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